1

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

George Kerevan argues in The Scotsman that we need migrant labour.  The article is subscription only so I'll include a few snippets here:

WHAT are trades unions for? They are certainly important enough for Gordon Brown to address the brothers and sisters of the TUC at their Brighton annual jamboree with a promise of 500,000 more "British jobs for British workers".

This refrain struck me as a trifle jingoistic - woe betide John Swinney if he ever talked about "Scottish jobs for Scottish workers". But Brown was out to placate the unions with what, in an earlier Labour era, would have been called a Social Contract. In effect, he was offering more jobs in return for wage moderation in the public sector...

Assuming the world economy does not decelerate following a likely US recession, the UK economy could continue to grow at above trend. But the jobs that it will generate are of two kinds: highly skilled ones that can only be filled from abroad; and low-skilled ones that could (in theory) be filled by Brits. However, there is little evidence that young British males are prepared to work for the minimum wage, so any new unskilled service jobs will be filled by immigrants...

With this in mind, consider another dubious Brown offering to the unions - a plan to force skilled workers coming to the UK (from outside the EU) to learn English before they arrive. The aim is to make it more difficult for such workers to meet the UK entry requirements, and so free up jobs for locals. The government estimates that 35,000 of the 95,000 skilled migrants who entered the UK last year would have failed this test.

However, it seems unlikely that there will be many young unemployed people from the Liverpool housing estates, or similar, who could easily take up those 35,000 jobs. After all, we let foreign workers into the UK because they have the skills our own work force lacks - low-skilled workers do not have a right to apply for permanent residency.

This move is an unnecessary interference in the labour market which will dry up a valuable source of skilled workers. Paradoxically, the one thing calculated to tighten the private-sector labour market and cause wage inflation is blocking the entry of skilled foreign workers.

Actually, I think most public-sector wages (outside the professions) are absurdly low which explains why productivity in the NHS and local government is so poor - cheap labour means managers do not seek to use it well, while low wages produce unmotivated staff. There is a case for raising these wages to boost productivity, but I don't expect Brown (or union militants) to grasp the advantages of productivity bargaining.


Kerevan makes some important points that are easily lost in political debate.  I think Brown has overplayed the 'British' card of late and I am sure it is purely about political positioning.  Whether this really does feed through into concrete policy measures is another matter, though Brown has not shown himself to be averse to regulations that cost jobs and harm businesses.

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

Brown is certainly just politicking with all this talk of Britishness.

3

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

Brown is certainly just politicking with all this talk of Britishness.


That's politics, unfortunately, and it sends out the wrong message.  Instead he should be explaining to people why it is good for us to have an open economy with substantial free movement of labour.

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

The problem is that our public services such as transport, housing, G.Ps surgeries etc are creaking at the seams. We dont have enough of these services to meet the needs of the extra population.
the picture is not so simple. I have a friend who lives in an eco village, and almost all of them relied on doing manual work ie carpentry etc to earn a living, but they have found that migrants fromeastern europe charge less per hour, consequently some are out of a job, or forced to work for less pay. This isnt right. The bosses are using cheap migrant labour to bring down the wages of the indigenous workforce.
Solution: strengthen the minimum age legislation. Also problem is the EU ruled that migrants can be paid the minimum wage from their home country yet work here if employed via a job agency with an office in their home country. This isnt right.

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

The 'indigenous workforce' are no more entitled to employment than anyone else in my opinion, particularly when we have such an extensive body of social and welfare policy in place to protect the former from absolute poverty - a condition which is all too common in many of the countries from which migrant labour frequently arrives.

Celebrate not that you are English; nor Scottish nor Welsh, nor any other nation of the world; celebrate instead your common humanity.

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

kristos wrote:

The problem is that our public services such as transport, housing, G.Ps surgeries etc are creaking at the seams. We dont have enough of these services to meet the needs of the extra population.

I agree, partly.

Infrastructure and services like health, housing and transport can be built to service a variable number of people. Extra population need not stress these services if there is sufficient planning and so forth.

However I do think there hasn't been enough planning and I think that the Government believed their own spin. They thought that only a small number of people would flee eastern Europe and come to the UK. In actuality, of course, many came. They also thought that those who came would mostly go back at some point. However more are choosing to stay.

In my opinion there is nothing wrong with either. These people cannot and should not be blamed for fleeing poverty and now that they are in the UK, making friends and forming relationships, it is only natural that they choose to stay.

kristos wrote:

Also problem is the EU ruled that migrants can be paid the minimum wage from their home country yet work here if employed via a job agency with an office in their home country. This isnt right.

Here I agree with you completely. I don't actually agree with minimum wage laws at all (see below) but if we are to have a minimum wage law, then it should apply equally to all people - young, old, migrant alike.

kristos wrote:

the picture is not so simple. I have a friend who lives in an eco village, and almost all of them relied on doing manual work ie carpentry etc to earn a living, but they have found that migrants fromeastern europe charge less per hour, consequently some are out of a job, or forced to work for less pay. This isnt right. The bosses are using cheap migrant labour to bring down the wages of the indigenous workforce.

This is a problem which we will face time and time again unless we empower people to choose their own pay. This is why I disagree with minimum wage laws.

The labour market is a market like any other. The value of a persons labour is determined by their skills, the volume of work that can be accomplished and the wage that they are willing to work for. British workers are placed at an unfair disadvantage because it is stipulated that we must be paid, at least, the minimum wage. This restriction isn't true for EU immigrant workers and therefore employers will naturally choose to employ them.

This is a market problem and can be solved by rectifying the imbalances.

If we choose not to, and importantly we cannot due to EU law, restrict immigration then this imbalance has to remain. The other imbalance is the pay. So repeal or alter the minimum wage to enable UK workers to compete.

Of course the other imbalance is the availability of work. The recession has made this imbalance worse.

DanielRM wrote:

The 'indigenous workforce' are no more entitled to employment than anyone else in my opinion, particularly when we have such an extensive body of social and welfare policy in place to protect the former from absolute poverty - a condition which is all too common in many of the countries from which migrant labour frequently arrives.

I agree.

Whilst I think the way in which welfare is provided is fundamentally flawed, I do agree with the provision of a welfare system of some kind (not necessarily by government, however).

Regardless, I do think that any attempt to legislate behaviour is ultimately doomed to failure and trying to force companies to hire British staff against the grain of their business will only result in unhappy situations.

The minimum wage has been part of the problem. The minimum wage law has had the effect of giving implicit government approval of low wages for skilled jobs but at the same time forcing companies to pay unskilled workers a higher wage than their job is worth.

This has two effects:

Skilled workers are convinced to work for a salary below the true value of their work and do not feel confident in negotiating better pay from their employers.

Unskilled workers are denied jobs entirely as the labour which would have been open to them is no longer available at all as companies cannot afford to pay a person to do a job which holds no value. Instead existing staff are asked to take on the extra duty.

Re: 'We need migrant labour'

Here's a related story about migrant workers in hotels being underpaid.